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Archived Transcript for 2 October 2001: Pages
1 to 100
1
1 Tuesday, 2nd October 2001
2 (10.00 am)
3 THE CHAIRMAN: Good morning, everyone. Just before we
4 begin, I wonder if I could just address a request to the
5 advocates for the interested parties. I received last
6 evening a very helpful note from Mr Turner -- Mr Turner,
7 thank you very much indeed -- giving an indication of
8 the length of time you assess at this stage you would
9 need for re-examination of the witnesses that you will
10 be the advocate for. I am grateful to you that all of
11 them are well within the 30 minutes that I outlined,
12 thank you very much.
13 It made me realise that it would be extraordinarily
14 helpful if the other advocates here could give me
15 a similar indication over the next few days. Thank you
16 very much indeed.
17 Mr Garnham?
18 MR GARNHAM: Thank you, sir, good morning. Our first
19 witness today is Pamela Fortune. I wonder if you would
20 come to the desk, please, Ms Fortune.
21 MS PAMELA FORTUNE (sworn)
22 MR GARNHAM: Good morning, Ms Fortune.
23 MS FORTUNE: Good morning.
24 MR GARNHAM: Sir, Ms Fortune has made two statements for the
25 Inquiry. The first is in volume 1 of the green files at
2
1 page 160, and the second, same volume, page 166. She
2 also made a statement to the CPS, a copy of which we
3 have in our bundles; that is in volume 46 at page 83.
4 THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
5 MR GARNHAM: Ms Fortune, you are a social worker with Ealing
6 Social Services.
7 MS FORTUNE: No, I am not currently working for Ealing
8 Social Services.
9 MR GARNHAM: Who are you working with now?
10 MS FORTUNE: I am working as a locum for the London Borough
11 of Hammersmith and Fulham.
12 MR GARNHAM: Thank you. You were however in 1999 in that
13 post?
14 MS FORTUNE: Yes, I was.
15 MR GARNHAM: And you had been in that post since June of
16 1998?
17 MS FORTUNE: Yes.
18 MR GARNHAM: Ms Fortune, looking back on your involvement in
19 the case of Victoria, are you now content with the
20 quality of the job you did?
21 MS FORTUNE: In hindsight, no.
22 MR GARNHAM: Can you tell us the respects in which, with the
23 benefit of hindsight, you are not happy with what you
24 did?
25 MS FORTUNE: I thought that with the assessment framework,
3
1 if that was in place, we would have had time to have
2 interviewed Victoria more thoroughly.
3 MR GARNHAM: So it is principally in the inadequacy of the
4 interview of Victoria that you think there was error?
5 MS FORTUNE: Yes, and the resources that were available at
6 the time.
7 MR GARNHAM: Tell us about the resources; in what sense were
8 the resources inadequate in a way that affected the way
9 you did your job?
10 MS FORTUNE: We had a lot of unaccompanied minors, there was
11 a lot of issues over housing and lack of resources with
12 the information that we had.
13 MR GARNHAM: I am still not sure I understand what you mean
14 by lack of resources in that sense.
15 MS FORTUNE: I am saying we had a lot of unaccompanied
16 minors, people presenting as homeless, and it was very
17 difficult to have the resources for housing.
18 MR GARNHAM: So the problem was not in the staff numbers
19 available to deal with the case, but the resources in
20 providing housing, is that what you are saying?
21 MS FORTUNE: It could be a mixture of both.
22 MR GARNHAM: Your first involvement with Victoria and with
23 Kouao occurred on 26th April 1999, I think.
24 MS FORTUNE: I received a phone call from Julie Winter.
25 MR GARNHAM: Is she at the Homeless Persons Unit of your
4
1 same Council?
2 MS FORTUNE: Yes, that is true.
3 MR GARNHAM: And as a result of that conversation, a form
4 was completed, and I wonder if I can ask you to have
5 a look at that form. I think it is known as the yellow
6 form in Ealing, and it is in volume 5, please, page 217.
7 The photocopy is white, but I think that is a yellow
8 form, is it not?
9 MS FORTUNE: Yes, it is.
10 MR GARNHAM: That is the Children's Services first level
11 assessment core form. It is completed, I think, on the
12 front page by Ms Winter; is that right?
13 MS FORTUNE: No, it is not.
14 MR GARNHAM: Who completed that then?
15 MS FORTUNE: I completed that.
16 MR GARNHAM: Thank you. Certainly you completed the second
17 page, we can see that from the paragraph headed "Details
18 of Reasons for Referral", where you write:
19 "Received a telephone call from Julie Winter, HPU.
20 She informed me that the Homeless Persons Unit are
21 unable to assist Mrs Kouao and her daughter. Mrs Winter
22 would like SS" -- Social Services?
23 MS FORTUNE: Yes, that is correct.
24 MR GARNHAM: -- "to undertake an assessment of Mrs Kouao's
25 daughter's needs."
5
1 So from the very start you were being asked to
2 focus, were you, on Victoria's needs?
3 MS FORTUNE: Yes, that is correct.
4 MR GARNHAM: When she gave her evidence yesterday, Ms Winter
5 said that that was not precisely her intention; she did
6 not see this as a child in need case at that stage, but
7 that is how you understood it?
8 MS FORTUNE: Yes, for both Mrs Kouao and Victoria at the
9 time, to look at their housing needs.
10 MR GARNHAM: Did you take the view from that early contact
11 that Victoria was at least potentially a child in need?
12 MS FORTUNE: The information that I got from Julie was that
13 Mrs Kouao had enough finance until 1st May, so I made an
14 appointment, I believe, on 29th April for her to come to
15 the office, for an assessment to be undertaken.
16 MR GARNHAM: Do we see the fact that she has enough money
17 until 1st May recorded in the form?
18 MS FORTUNE: No.
19 MR GARNHAM: Is that recorded anywhere in the notes?
20 MS FORTUNE: I do not believe so.
21 MR GARNHAM: So that is something you remember now, is it?
22 MS FORTUNE: About the money?
23 MR GARNHAM: Yes.
24 MS FORTUNE: Yes.
25 MR GARNHAM: I do not think we find it in your statement
6
1 either, do we?
2 MS FORTUNE: No.
3 MR GARNHAM: So it is something that has come to you
4 recently, that recollection, has it?
5 MS FORTUNE: Yes.
6 MR GARNHAM: Does that mean that you have a good
7 recollection of the particular events of April 1999?
8 MS FORTUNE: I have some recollection, and I have got
9 a diary, I have found my diary.
10 MR GARNHAM: You have found your diary?
11 MS FORTUNE: Yes.
12 MR GARNHAM: That is a professional diary, is it?
13 MS FORTUNE: With some information, yes.
14 MR GARNHAM: I do not think that is a document that has been
15 disclosed to us, is it?
16 MS FORTUNE: No.
17 MR GARNHAM: Have you given it to those who are representing
18 you here today?
19 MS FORTUNE: No.
20 MR GARNHAM: Sir, I am going to ask if we could have sight
21 of that later, and I look to Ms Fortune's advocate and
22 get a helpful nod. We will proceed in the absence of
23 that, sir, but I might ask to have the chance to look at
24 that at some convenient break, and then come back on
25 that matter.
7
1 Is there a reference in your diary, then, to the
2 fact that you were told that this lady, Kouao, had
3 enough money to last her until 1st May?
4 MS FORTUNE: No, there is not.
5 MR GARNHAM: So this is a pure recollection of yours from
6 two and a half years ago?
7 MS FORTUNE: Yes, what was -- yes.
8 MR GARNHAM: Did you see Victoria as potentially a child in
9 need within the meaning of that expression in the
10 Children Act?
11 MS FORTUNE: What the department done, usually when people
12 presented and said that they did not have accommodation,
13 every child was taken as a child in need under
14 Section 17, as a whole.
15 MR GARNHAM: So the child was viewed as a potentially
16 a child in need within Section 17?
17 MS FORTUNE: Yes.
18 MR GARNHAM: And that is presumably why you entered what you
19 did on page 220 in that bundle, in the "Service and
20 Action Plan", where you have written, I think, "Mother,
21 child (pending) homeless (see referral) child in need",
22 yes?
23 MS FORTUNE: Yes.
24 MR GARNHAM: And by both of those two entries you have put:
25 "Assessment to be undertaken by the DSW", presumably the
8
1 duty social worker?
2 MS FORTUNE: Duty social worker.
3 MR GARNHAM: So from that early stage, you saw the need for
4 an assessment of a potential child in need?
5 MS FORTUNE: Yes, that is what usually was undertaken.
6 MR GARNHAM: If a child is assessed to be a child in need,
7 would your Council invariably ensure that he or she had
8 accommodation?
9 MS FORTUNE: Yes.
10 MR GARNHAM: You arranged an appointment, I think, for
11 29th April?
12 MS FORTUNE: Yes, that is correct.
13 MR GARNHAM: Will you turn on to page 221 in that bundle,
14 please? Paragraphs 10, 11, 12, 13 and onwards are not
15 completed; why is that?
16 MS FORTUNE: Because what usually happens is that it is put
17 in the duty basket, and then the assessment should be
18 completed by duty social workers.
19 MR GARNHAM: So were you expecting that to happen on
20 29th April?
21 MS FORTUNE: The day that she came in, yes.
22 MR GARNHAM: On the date of the appointment. It appears
23 from what we have seen of the file as if those pages
24 were never completed.
25 MS FORTUNE: That is correct.
9
1 MR GARNHAM: But that is where the assessment of this child
2 in need ought to have been put.
3 MS FORTUNE: I think there was difficulty posed, because
4 there was quite a number of duty social workers dealing
5 with the case as well.
6 MR GARNHAM: Do you know whether a social worker had been
7 allocated to this case?
8 MS FORTUNE: I was allocated the case on the 30th. I do not
9 know if there was anybody else allocated.
10 MR GARNHAM: So who is it who ought to have completed this
11 form?
12 MS FORTUNE: Up until it is allocated, it is the duty social
13 workers. If a core form is filled in with the
14 information, it is the following person that fills in
15 the information, if they obtain it.
16 MR GARNHAM: When you next saw the file, did you look back
17 to see what had been put on this form?
18 MS FORTUNE: I cannot recall if I did.
19 MR GARNHAM: Should you have done?
20 MS FORTUNE: I think I put the information about the doctor
21 on there, which was the information that I found out.
22 MR GARNHAM: Is that the information on page 217?
23 MS FORTUNE: Yes, that is right.
24 MR GARNHAM: So you did go back to this form?
25 MS FORTUNE: Yes.
10
1 MR GARNHAM: But you did not complete the assessment sheets,
2 paragraph 10 onwards?
3 MS FORTUNE: No.
4 MR GARNHAM: And nobody ever completed that assessment
5 sheet, did they?
6 MS FORTUNE: It does not appear to have been, no.
7 MR GARNHAM: I take it from what you said a few moments ago
8 that you assumed that Kouao and Victoria would be able
9 to manage, would be able to feed themselves, using the
10 money that you now say you were told they had available
11 to them.
12 MS FORTUNE: Yes, by Julie Winter.
13 MR GARNHAM: When did you first recollect that you had been
14 told they had that money?
15 MS FORTUNE: Via the phone call that I received, I cannot
16 remember exactly when.
17 MR GARNHAM: What I am trying to understand is why we have
18 not previously learned that you remember being told by
19 Ms Winter that they had enough money to last them until
20 1st May. When did that memory first occur? Let me
21 explain why I ask you that: because if we had known
22 that, it is something we would probably have wanted to
23 ask Ms Winter when she was here yesterday, but the first
24 we heard of it was this morning when you told me, and
25 I am wondering when you first recollected that.
11
1 MS FORTUNE: I think it is via our legal meetings.
2 (10.15 am)
3 MR GARNHAM: So your lawyers were told, were they, that you
4 had that recollection some days ago?
5 MS FORTUNE: I discussed it in brief.
6 MR GARNHAM: Yes, I see. This form that we have at page 217
7 in the bundle was placed in a duty basket, is that
8 right?
9 MS FORTUNE: That is correct.
10 MR GARNHAM: The purpose of that being that the duty manager
11 could then allocate it to a social worker.
12 MS FORTUNE: That is correct.
13 MR GARNHAM: Who was the duty manager on duty that week?
14 MS FORTUNE: I am unable to recall that information.
15 MR GARNHAM: You did not take the appointment with Kouao and
16 Victoria on 29th April, did you?
17 MS FORTUNE: No, I did not.
18 MR GARNHAM: Do you know whether that actually took place,
19 that day?
20 MS FORTUNE: I think she came in earlier.
21 MR GARNHAM: It appears from the statement of another social
22 worker at Ealing that Victoria and Kouao returned on
23 28th April, the day before the appointed day, and that
24 they came in again on 30th April. Were you aware of
25 that?
12
1 MS FORTUNE: It is difficult to recall. I do not know if
2 I am. Because of the make-up of duty, usually the
3 social workers were either one week on or one week off,
4 and they had their own case loads to deal with as well.
5 MR GARNHAM: But looking back at it now, you cannot recall
6 whether you were aware if Kouao and Victoria were seen
7 on 29th April?
8 MS FORTUNE: No.
9 MR GARNHAM: I wonder if you could be shown volume 46 of our
10 bundles, please. It is page 83. That is a copy of the
11 statement you made for the CPS with regard to the
12 criminal trial, do you remember that?
13 MS FORTUNE: Yes.
14 MR GARNHAM: Do you see about ten lines down the word
15 "destitute", in inverted commas? It is the first word
16 on the line, just above the second punch hole.
17 MS FORTUNE: Yes, I do.
18 MR GARNHAM: The sentence after that reads:
19 "An appointment was booked for 29th April.
20 I believe they were seen by other social workers on that
21 day."
22 That was your belief at the time you made this
23 statement; is that still your belief?
24 MS FORTUNE: I know that she has been seen earlier now.
25 MR GARNHAM: When you made this statement for the CPS, had
13
1 you access to your files?
2 MS FORTUNE: No, I was off on an industrial injury, so I saw
3 the CPS about a year later.
4 MR GARNHAM: So this was a sort of educated guess, when you
5 gave that piece of information, was it?
6 MS FORTUNE: Yes, it was.
7 MR GARNHAM: What is the process by which an appointment is
8 arranged? How do we get from the note in the core form,
9 that an appointment should be arranged, to one actually
10 happening?
11 MS FORTUNE: We have -- there is telephone calls taken by
12 duty social workers, and the information is noted down.
13 Usually what happens is the most available date, we ask
14 if it is possible to book an appointment at that time.
15 MR GARNHAM: So you telephone the duty social worker, do
16 you?
17 MS FORTUNE: No, usually -- members of the general public
18 can actually ring.
19 MR GARNHAM: I am interested in what happened in this case.
20 If you could look at volume 5, page 218, if you still
21 have that in front of you, we see in the box marked 2 at
22 the bottom of that page:
23 "Appointment arranged for Friday, 29th April 1999 to
24 assess Mrs Kouao and child. Full details to be
25 completed on Friday."
14
1 You have written that. So when you have written
2 "appointment arranged", what is the process by which
3 that happens?
4 MS FORTUNE: The information that is put in on the diary, we
5 have a duty diary, and the case is then passed on to the
6 duty team manager, or the duty team leader.
7 MR GARNHAM: And he or she telephones the person concerned,
8 do they?
9 MS FORTUNE: What, the client?
10 MR GARNHAM: Yes.
11 MS FORTUNE: No.
12 MR GARNHAM: How does Kouao know that she has an
13 appointment?
14 MS FORTUNE: Because I passed that information to
15 Julie Winter by the phone. She asked if I could make an
16 appointment the most available time and I said it would
17 be the 29th.
18 MR GARNHAM: I see. Do you know whether Julie Winter then
19 passed that on to Kouao at the time?
20 MS FORTUNE: I believe she did.
21 MR GARNHAM: You were not again involved in Victoria's case,
22 I think, until the beginning of June.
23 MS FORTUNE: That is correct.
24 MR GARNHAM: So a period of about five weeks before you next
25 saw this case.
15
1 MS FORTUNE: That is correct.
2 MR GARNHAM: Turn to page 208 in that bundle, please.
3 That is a letter from Youngs Solicitors dated
4 27th May; do you see that? It has a "Received" stamp
5 for 1st June on it, so it looks as if it was received in
6 your office on 1st June. When did you first see it?
7 MS FORTUNE: On the day that it is noted in the files.
8 MR GARNHAM: When is that?
9 MS FORTUNE: 1st June.
10 MR GARNHAM: So you saw it the day it was received?
11 MS FORTUNE: I think so.
12 MR GARNHAM: Were you aware of what had happened in this
13 case in the meantime since the end of April? Had you
14 brought yourself up to speed by reading the file?
15 MS FORTUNE: I think I discussed it with the duty workers
16 involved.
17 MR GARNHAM: So you were up to speed by the time you came to
18 look at that letter from Youngs Solicitors?
19 MS FORTUNE: Yes, it was a case that was discussed in the
20 team.
21 MR GARNHAM: What was your reaction to that letter? Let us
22 look at it paragraph by paragraph. The solicitors say
23 that Kouao had come to the United Kingdom from France in
24 March 1999; was that consistent with what you understood
25 to be the position?
16
1 MS FORTUNE: My information is that she came in April.
2 MR GARNHAM: So did you note that you were being told by the
3 solicitors something different from what your colleagues
4 had understood to be the case?
5 MS FORTUNE: I cannot recall that at the time.
6 MR GARNHAM: The solicitor says that they had exhausted
7 funds, because they had paid rent of £166 per week. Did
8 you check whether that was the case?
9 MS FORTUNE: If the funds were exhausted?
10 MR GARNHAM: If they had been paying rent of £166 per week.
11 MS FORTUNE: No, I did not.
12 MR GARNHAM: Did you check where they had been living since
13 you last had the file?
14 MS FORTUNE: At Nicoll Road.
15 MR GARNHAM: You knew it was at Nicoll Road. Do you know
16 what the rent was for Nicoll Road?
17 MS FORTUNE: No, I do not.
18 MR GARNHAM: Do you know who was paying it?
19 MS FORTUNE: At that time, Ealing Social Services started to
20 pay.
21 MR GARNHAM: So the apparent assertion of the solicitors
22 here that she had been paying £166 per week for a room
23 rented by herself was plainly wrong; is that right?
24 MS FORTUNE: If they sent the information on the 27th, yes,
25 it would be.
17
1 MR GARNHAM: Were you conscious of that at the time when you
2 read this letter?
3 MS FORTUNE: I think I was anxious to put the information to
4 the manager.
5 MR GARNHAM: And which manager was that?
6 MS FORTUNE: I think I spoke to Sharmain Lawrence.
7 MR GARNHAM: They go on in the letter:
8 "Our client and her daughter are currently staying
9 at a hotel provided for them by yourselves. They are
10 ready to leave on 31st May."
11 Did you check the accuracy of that?
12 MS FORTUNE: Yes, they were asked to leave.
13 MR GARNHAM: The solicitors went on to say that thereafter,
14 Kouao and Victoria would have nowhere to live, and no
15 money for food. Were you concerned about that?
16 MS FORTUNE: Yes, I think that is why I went to my manager,
17 and it was when I was told to extend accommodation.
18 MR GARNHAM: When was the last subsistence payment made by
19 your Council to the family prior to that date, the date
20 of that letter?
21 MS FORTUNE: I never paid any subsistence, so I did not know
22 about the information.
23 MR GARNHAM: Is that not recorded on the file?
24 MS FORTUNE: It is recorded, but I did not pay --
25 MR GARNHAM: Did you not look at it?
18
1 MS FORTUNE: I did not pay subsistence. I think I done the
2 amount of subsistence they received at the end of my
3 assessment.
4 MR GARNHAM: Did you look to see when, prior to that letter,
5 they had last received subsistence from the Council?
6 MS FORTUNE: At that time, no.
7 MR GARNHAM: If we look at page 224 in that same volume; do
8 you have that?
9 MS FORTUNE: Yes, I do.
10 MR GARNHAM: We can see that subsistence of £64.44 had been
11 paid three days prior to that letter being written on
12 24th May; do you see that?
13 MS FORTUNE: Yes, I do.
14 MR GARNHAM: So did you take the view that there was
15 a problem here with Victoria and Kouao not having enough
16 money to feed themselves, or that there was not?
17 MS FORTUNE: I took the view that I needed to go to my
18 manager with the information and seek some legal advice.
19 MR GARNHAM: And did you do so?
20 MS FORTUNE: I took the information to the manager.
21 MR GARNHAM: And the manager was Sharmain Lawrence?
22 MS FORTUNE: I think so, at the time. I am not really sure.
23 MR GARNHAM: And what advice did you receive from her?
24 MS FORTUNE: To extend accommodation and to look towards
25 booking an assessment.
19
1 MR GARNHAM: How is Victoria going to eat in the meantime?
2 MS FORTUNE: I was told that she would receive subsistence
3 money.
4 MR GARNHAM: That she would receive subsistence money?
5 MS FORTUNE: That Mrs Kouao would receive subsistence money.
6 MR GARNHAM: And you were told that by Sharmain Lawrence?
7 MS FORTUNE: Yes, that is right.
8 MR GARNHAM: On the face of it, she had had £64-odd three
9 days before that letter, a week before you received the
10 letter, and I think there was a phone call, was there
11 not, from the solicitors?
12 MS FORTUNE: Yes, that is correct.
13 MR GARNHAM: Same volume, page 167, please.
14 This is an entry in the case notes. Whose
15 handwriting is that?
16 MS FORTUNE: It is my handwriting.
17 MR GARNHAM: Is there any particular reason why Ealing
18 social workers do not sign their case notes?
19 MS FORTUNE: No.
20 MR GARNHAM: It is always a matter of spotting people's
21 handwriting, is it?
22 MS FORTUNE: No, I think it is difficult at the time because
23 we are dealing with so many cases. It is my fault that
24 I did not sign.
25 MR GARNHAM: I do not think you are alone, Ms Fortune, in
20
1 not signing your case notes, but there we are.
2 This is a conversation you had with Doreen Bogle --
3 MS FORTUNE: Correct.
4 MR GARNHAM: -- from Youngs Solicitors, and if you look
5 about two thirds of the way down the page, opposite the
6 second page hole, you will see a paragraph which reads:
7 "Ms Bogle said her client is presently destitute.
8 She (Mrs Kouao) has asked Brent Social Services for
9 assistance. They, Brent Social Services, have asked her
10 to return here, Acton Social Services."
11 Do you see that?
12 MS FORTUNE: Mm.
13 MR GARNHAM: So you were being told on 1st June what is also
14 contained in the letter of 27th May that Victoria and
15 Kouao are destitute, so let me repeat the question.
16 What did you do to ensure that Victoria could eat that
17 day?
18 MS FORTUNE: The day that she came in to the office, when
19 I saw her --
20 MR GARNHAM: 1st June. Do you see what my concern is?
21 MS FORTUNE: Yes, I understand.
22 MR GARNHAM: There does not appear to be any money going to
23 Kouao in order to enable Victoria to eat that day. In
24 fact, there does not seem to be any money going until
25 7th June.
21
1 MS FORTUNE: The accommodation was rebooked, as I said.
2 (10.30 am)
3 MR GARNHAM: I am again indebted to my learned friend. If
4 you look again at page 224 in that same volume, you will
5 see that the entries for subsistence are out of order.
6 After the entry for 8th June, there is an entry for
7 2nd June; do you have that? Page 224.
8 MS FORTUNE: Yes, I do.
9 MR GARNHAM: And on 2nd June, there was another £64-odd
10 paid. What was done on 1st June; that was my question,
11 however.
12 MS FORTUNE: 1st June, I think that the accommodation was
13 extended.
14 MR GARNHAM: Yes, I see.
15 MS FORTUNE: But usually we had weekly subsistence paid to
16 people that presented under Section 17.
17 MR GARNHAM: That appears to have been what was happening
18 here, roughly. Very well. You say you spoke to
19 Sharmain Lawrence, and that she said a full assessment
20 was needed of this case, is that right?
21 MS FORTUNE: Yes.
22 MR GARNHAM: Were you surprised that that had not already
23 been done, given that the need for it had been
24 identified at the end of April?
25 MS FORTUNE: What, a full assessment?
22
1 MR GARNHAM: Yes. You had made an appointment for an
2 assessment for 29th April, and here we were at the
3 beginning of June, and you were still being asked to do
4 an assessment. Did that surprise you, or is that normal
5 at Ealing?
6 MS FORTUNE: I think at the time it was quite difficult. We
7 usually assessed people via housing needs, rather than
8 being child focused.
9 MR GARNHAM: You assessed people generally on housing needs
10 rather than being child focused?
11 MS FORTUNE: Yes, at the time. It was quite difficult with
12 the unaccompanied minors and all the other people that
13 were coming in. Their need was -- looked towards
14 housing needs.
15 MR GARNHAM: Can you go back to page 166 in volume 5,
16 please? These are your notes, second paragraph:
17 "Mrs Kouao arrived at AAO" -- Acton Area Office?
18 MS FORTUNE: Yes.
19 MR GARNHAM: -- "at 4.45", and you then set out her
20 circumstances and what she told you; is that right?
21 MS FORTUNE: Correct.
22 MR GARNHAM: Are the notes over the page at 167 yours, or is
23 that a different handwriting?
24 MS FORTUNE: No, that is my writing, 167.
25 MR GARNHAM: You had been asked to do a full assessment by
23
1 Sharmain Lawrence. Did you do so?
2 MS FORTUNE: I think I booked an interpreter and made an
3 appointment for the assessment to take place.
4 MR GARNHAM: Which was to be, what, 17th June?
5 MS FORTUNE: Yes.
6 MR GARNHAM: You regarded it as possible, did you, to do
7 a full assessment at that time? You had been asked to
8 do a full assessment by Ms Lawrence; you regarded that
9 as a practical proposition, did you?
10 MS FORTUNE: As practical as it could be.
11 MR GARNHAM: Was there any impediment to your carrying out
12 such an assessment?
13 MS FORTUNE: At the time on the 17th?
14 MR GARNHAM: Either on the 2nd or the 1st when you made the
15 appointment, or on the 17th when you did it.
16 MS FORTUNE: With regards to booking the interpreter, we
17 needed the interpreter to come at the same time.
18 MR GARNHAM: But apart from needing an interpreter was there
19 any reason why you could not then do a proper assessment
20 of Victoria's needs?
21 MS FORTUNE: If she has language barriers, we would expect
22 an interpreter to be there.
23 MR GARNHAM: Once you have an interpreter is it then
24 possible for you to do a proper assessment of Victoria's
25 needs?
24
1 MS FORTUNE: Yes, it would have been.
2 MR GARNHAM: You learned a certain amount of information
3 during the course of your meeting with Kouao and
4 Victoria that day, did you not?
5 MS FORTUNE: Yes.
6 MR GARNHAM: Was Victoria present that day?
7 MS FORTUNE: On the 1st?
8 MR GARNHAM: Yes.
9 MS FORTUNE: I believe she was.
10 MR GARNHAM: You were told by Kouao that she and Victoria
11 had been sleeping in the kitchen of Nicoll Road, because
12 the roof was leaking.
13 MS FORTUNE: Correct.
14 MR GARNHAM: You were told that her daughter was very upset,
15 because the manager had been abusive; is that right?
16 Page 166, opposite the second punch hole:
17 "... said her daughter is very upset, because when
18 she complained to the manager of Nicoll Road, he was
19 very abusive."
20 MS FORTUNE: Correct.
21 MR GARNHAM: You were told that the premises were dirty and
22 unclean, that the lavatories were full of vomit and
23 excrement.
24 MS FORTUNE: Correct.
25 MR GARNHAM: What was your response to being told that
25
1 information about Nicoll Road?
2 MS FORTUNE: Mrs Kouao said that she made a complaint to the
3 police. I also know that there was a phone call made to
4 Nicoll Road, and they said that Mrs Kouao had ripped up
5 the carpets, and they did not agree with her assumption
6 about what she was saying about the room.
7 MR GARNHAM: Was any effort made to check by social workers
8 the state of Nicoll Road?
9 MS FORTUNE: I went with another colleague to Nicoll Road.
10 MR GARNHAM: When was that?
11 MS FORTUNE: Somewhere in between May and June, I am not
12 very clear.
13 MR GARNHAM: Before or after this conversation?
14 MS FORTUNE: I cannot recall when, the day.
15 MR GARNHAM: Was that a visit made by prior arrangement?
16 MS FORTUNE: Yes.
17 MR GARNHAM: Was any record made of it?
18 MS FORTUNE: No, I do not think there was.
19 MR GARNHAM: Why not?
20 MS FORTUNE: I was called to go out with another duty social
21 worker to see another family. I presumed that she would
22 have written the information. She obviously presumed
23 I would have.
24 MR GARNHAM: Who was that?
25 MS FORTUNE: Cecilia Schreuder.
26
1 MR GARNHAM: Do you know whether she did make a note of it?
2 MS FORTUNE: I do not know.
3 MR GARNHAM: When you visited, what was your view about the
4 premises?
5 MS FORTUNE: We asked to see the toilets, individual
6 bedrooms. It had basic amenities.
7 MR GARNHAM: Clean?
8 MS FORTUNE: Reasonably clean, yes.
9 MR GARNHAM: Adequate for mother and child?
10 MS FORTUNE: Yes, we asked to see people's rooms.
11 MR GARNHAM: You do not refer to this visit in either of
12 your first two statements; why is that?
13 MS FORTUNE: No, because I was asked if I undertook the
14 visit on the 17th. As I explained to somebody else,
15 I was off on the 18th and the following days after, so
16 I could not recall about that information.
17 MR GARNHAM: But you are confident, are you, that this was
18 a prearranged visit to Nicoll Road, and that it was
19 after this conversation with Kouao?
20 MS FORTUNE: The manager did ask us to go out and check.
21 MR GARNHAM: After this conversation with Kouao?
22 MS FORTUNE: We had quite a lot of complaints from families,
23 so we were usually asked to go out of check the
24 accommodation.
25 MR GARNHAM: After this conversation with Kouao or before?
27
1 MS FORTUNE: Somewhere in between, that is all I can say.
2 MR GARNHAM: What I am wanting to know is whether you were
3 responding to these complaints, or whether it just
4 happens that you had earlier made a visit to
5 Nicoll Road; do you understand the question?
6 MS FORTUNE: Yes, I do.
7 MR GARNHAM: Which is it?
8 MS FORTUNE: I think we were responding to complaints,
9 because we had complaints from other people as well.
10 MR GARNHAM: That still does not answer the question, I am
11 afraid, Ms Fortune. Was it after or before these
12 complaints from Kouao?
13 MS FORTUNE: It would be difficult for me to say.
14 MR GARNHAM: Will you have a look at volume 2, please? So
15 we can identify the document, turn to page 54 first.
16 This is the Part 8 review of Ealing Social Services'
17 involvement with Victoria, is it not?
18 MS FORTUNE: Yes, that is correct.
19 MR GARNHAM: Go on to page 101, please. This is part of
20 an appendix to that report which lists events as they
21 concern Ealing social workers; do you see that?
22 MS FORTUNE: I do.
23 MR GARNHAM: Can you go to the right hand column,
24 "Additional information and comments following
25 interviews with staff."
28
1 Do you see the second entry that begins "TM"; that
2 means team manager, does it not?
3 MS FORTUNE: Yes, it does.
4 MR GARNHAM: Is that Sarah Stollard?
5 MS FORTUNE: Yes.
6 MR GARNHAM: Sarah Stollard stated at interview that at
7 around this time, but prior, she thinks, to Ms Kouao's
8 complaints, she asked two social workers, SW4 and
9 another, to make an unannounced visit to the
10 accommodation and inspect it.
11 So it appears to be Ms Stollard's recollection
12 firstly that the visit was unannounced and secondly that
13 it was prior to Kouao's complaints.
14 MS FORTUNE: You could ask Deborah Gaunt. Deborah Gaunt
15 also went. I do not know if that is the person she is
16 talking about.
17 MR GARNHAM: Who is SW4?
18 MS FORTUNE: I would have to look at the information here.
19 MR GARNHAM: That is not a general description.
20 MS FORTUNE: No.
21 MR GARNHAM: That is just for this report.
22 When you noted this conversation, in the case notes
23 at page 166 in volume 5, and perhaps you could turn back
24 to that, there is no reference there to your arranging
25 to go and visit Nicoll Road, is there?
29
1 MS FORTUNE: No.
2 MR GARNHAM: Nor in the following notes is there any note of
3 your having done so.
4 MS FORTUNE: As I explained, I was called -- I have got my
5 diary. I was called to do a duty back-up visit, and
6 after that time, to go and look at the accommodation.
7 MR GARNHAM: Does your diary tell us the date when you made
8 this visit to Nicoll Road?
9 MS FORTUNE: No. I have made two visits. There is one
10 visit that I have made, and I have not noted the other.
11 MR GARNHAM: Have you made a note of the date of the one
12 visit?
13 MS FORTUNE: Yes, that is one visit before, in March.
14 MR GARNHAM: And what date is that?
15 MS FORTUNE: In March some time, to see another family.
16 MR GARNHAM: In March. Then there is a second visit you
17 have noted in your diary?
18 MS FORTUNE: No, I did not note it, I spoke to the social
19 worker involved.
20 MR GARNHAM: I see. But there is nothing to suggest, is
21 there, that in fact, in these notes or anywhere else,
22 following Kouao's complaints about Nicoll Road, that you
23 made any visit there?
24 MS FORTUNE: Not there that I can recall I did.
25 MR GARNHAM: If Ms Stollard is right, and the visit to
30
1 Nicoll Road was before Kouao's complaints about the
2 state of the lavatories and so on, if she is right about
3 that, then it would appear that nobody checked out
4 whether there was anything in what Kouao had told you
5 about the condition of Nicoll Road.
6 MS FORTUNE: Deborah Gaunt also went to the accommodation.
7 MR GARNHAM: And she went after, did she?
8 MS FORTUNE: I believe so.
9 MR GARNHAM: I see. We will ask her about that. An
10 appointment was arranged, I think, for the assessment of
11 this case for 7th June.
12 MS FORTUNE: Yes, that is correct.
13 MR GARNHAM: And Kouao did not attend for that.
14 MS FORTUNE: No, I do not think she attended the first
15 appointment.
16 MR GARNHAM: Paragraph 5 of your first statement:
17 "I also understand that Ms Kouao did not attend the
18 assessment appointment on 7th June."
19 Is that right?
20 MS FORTUNE: Correct.
21 MR GARNHAM: And a new appointment was then arranged for
22 17th June with an interpreter.
23 MS FORTUNE: Correct.
24 MR GARNHAM: And that interpreter was a Mrs Choufani.
25 MS FORTUNE: Correct.
31
1 MR GARNHAM: And you attended with her and saw Kouao.
2 MS FORTUNE: Correct.
3 MR GARNHAM: Did Victoria attend on that occasion?
4 MS FORTUNE: No, she did not.
5 MR GARNHAM: You were told she was with a childminder.
6 MS FORTUNE: Yes, I asked why she did not bring her, because
7 I had made the appointment for her to come along, and
8 she said she was with a childminder.
9 MR GARNHAM: Were you surprised she was not at school?
10 MS FORTUNE: The information of Mrs Kouao said she wanted to
11 bring over the four other children with her, and then
12 settle her after they came over.
13 MR GARNHAM: This is the middle of term time.
14 MS FORTUNE: Near the end of June, yes.
15 MR GARNHAM: So children should still have been in school?
16 MS FORTUNE: I agree, but if the parents say they are
17 bringing other children over and making arrangements for
18 school, then take --
19 MR GARNHAM: Why does the fact that the parents are bringing
20 other children over explain Victoria not being in
21 school?
22 MS FORTUNE: The information -- she said she wanted to bring
23 her children over, have accommodation, and then set
24 Victoria to go to school.
25 MR GARNHAM: You were told that instead Victoria was with
32
1 a childminder. Did that concern you?
2 MS FORTUNE: Not at the time, no.
3 (10.45 am)
4 MR GARNHAM: Did you know whether the childminder was being
5 paid?
6 MS FORTUNE: All I know is she had asked the local authority
7 for the money for the childminder.
8 MR GARNHAM: Did you enquire as to whether the childminder
9 was registered?
10 MS FORTUNE: No, I did not.
11 MR GARNHAM: Were you aware that the childminder ought to be
12 registered?
13 MS FORTUNE: Yes.
14 MR GARNHAM: Turn to page 177, please. Is this the
15 assessment form that was completed that day?
16 MS FORTUNE: Yes.
17 MR GARNHAM: That was completed partially, I think, by the
18 interpreter.
19 MS FORTUNE: All by the interpreter.
20 MR GARNHAM: All by the interpreter.
21 MS FORTUNE: Actually, no, my information is down at the
22 bottom.
23 MR GARNHAM: Your information is down at the bottom; what do
24 you mean by that?
25 MS FORTUNE: "Other agencies involved".
33
1 MR GARNHAM: What page are you looking at, please?
2 MS FORTUNE: 178.
3 MR GARNHAM: I see, you have completed "other agencies
4 involved", have you? Is that right?
5 MS FORTUNE: Yes, that is correct.
6 MR GARNHAM: Was any of this checked? Did you check, for
7 example, the details about Dr Patel at page 177?
8 MS FORTUNE: I did not undertake statutory checks at the
9 time, no.
10 MR GARNHAM: The crucial part of that document is at
11 page 179. Social worker's assessment and the manager's
12 decision; that is blank. Why is that?
13 MS FORTUNE: I explained to the manager that I found the
14 interview very difficult, because Mrs Kouao did not
15 speak English. I noted the information down, that
16 I found it difficult to do an assessment because she
17 would not respond to me, and the interpreter had to
18 write the information.
19 MR GARNHAM: So despite the presence of an interpreter, you
20 were not able to come to any decision?
21 MS FORTUNE: No.
22 MR GARNHAM: What was your manager's response to being told
23 that?
24 MS FORTUNE: I do not know.
25 MR GARNHAM: My reason for asking is that this is a case
34
1 that has been with Ealing since the end of April; there
2 had been an appointment for 29th April for an assessment
3 to be carried out. Here we are in the middle of June,
4 there is still no assessment carried out. You have got
5 to the end of an interview with an interpreter and still
6 no fully completed assessment is carried out, and I am
7 interested to know what your manager was doing about
8 that.
9 MS FORTUNE: We had to work with the partial information
10 that we had been given, and the information from the
11 solicitors as well.
12 MR GARNHAM: So when I asked you earlier whether there were
13 any hurdles to carry out a full assessment, this is what
14 you had got in mind, was it, the difficulties of
15 translating?
16 MS FORTUNE: It was difficult at the time, because Mrs Kouao
17 refused to speak any English to me at all.
18 MR GARNHAM: But you had an interpreter there; was that not
19 working?
20 MS FORTUNE: When I asked her specific questions, I cannot
21 speak French, so I do not know what is being said.
22 MR GARNHAM: Was the interpreter apparently failing to
23 translate your questions, or failing to translate the
24 answers?
25 MS FORTUNE: I think there was difficulty, because Mrs Kouao
35
1 was not responding very well.
2 MR GARNHAM: So the decision was taken, was it, that this
3 assessment would simply be abandoned?
4 MS FORTUNE: No, that the information we have got -- with
5 the rest of the information, a decision would be made.
6 MR GARNHAM: Yes, I see. Will you have a look, please, at
7 volume 46 again, page 83? This is back to your CPS
8 statement; will you go to the foot of that page:
9 "On 1st June, when I was on duty, I received
10 a letter from Marie-Therese's solicitor Doreen Bogle
11 from Youngs Solicitors. I believe I spoke to the duty
12 team leader at the time, Sharmain Lawrence. I also
13 received a telephone call from Ms Bogle, who queried why
14 Marie-Therese was being asked to vacate the bed and
15 breakfast."
16 Then these words:
17 "It is normal practice for an assessment to take
18 place, but where the applicant gives several different
19 accounts of why they need assistance, it is not possible
20 to correctly assess their needs and this therefore makes
21 them ineligible for assistance."
22 Do you stand by that?
23 MS FORTUNE: I do not know if I read all that information,
24 because I had just come back from an industrial injury,
25 but what I think I was trying to say is it was very
36
1 difficult to undertake any assessment if you have
2 various accounts of what a person has given.
3 MR GARNHAM: Does that make an applicant ineligible for
4 assistance?
5 MS FORTUNE: No, but we can only work with the information
6 that we have.
7 MR GARNHAM: What about Victoria?
8 MS FORTUNE: I did ask for Mrs Kouao to bring Victoria and
9 an interpreter, and I left various points to be carried
10 out.
11 MR GARNHAM: Who was your client?
12 MS FORTUNE: The client was both Mrs Kouao and Victoria.
13 MR GARNHAM: So in respect of the assessment of Victoria's
14 needs, what was the reason why that could not be
15 completed?
16 MS FORTUNE: Because at the time, when I called Mrs -- asked
17 Mrs Kouao to bring Victoria, she did not bring her at
18 all. It was difficult.
19 MR GARNHAM: So the failure of the carer to co-operate means
20 you simply carry out no assessment on the child, is that
21 right?
22 MS FORTUNE: I think there was parts of the assessment --
23 I mean, we look at the observations, how parent and
24 carer are acting and interact with each other.
25 MR GARNHAM: Did you carry out an assessment of Victoria's
37
1 needs, Ms Fortune?
2 MS FORTUNE: No, I did not complete an assessment of her
3 needs. I discussed the information.
4 MR GARNHAM: Can we go back to the notes of that meeting,
5 please, first of all at page 153 of volume 5? I wonder
6 if our witness manager could help the witness with this,
7 please; there are quite a lot of files to juggle.
8 Do you see there at the top of the page, there is an
9 entry for what looks like 30th June?
10 MS FORTUNE: Yes, I do.
11 MR GARNHAM: And underneath that, there is an entry for what
12 looks like 17th June?
13 MS FORTUNE: Yes, I do.
14 MR GARNHAM: Can you tell me first of all why it is that the
15 entry for the 17th comes after the entry for the 30th?
16 MS FORTUNE: No, I cannot.
17 MR GARNHAM: Are either of those in your handwriting?
18 MS FORTUNE: The 17th of the 6th, yes.
19 MR GARNHAM: The one at the bottom is your handwriting, but
20 you cannot recollect why it is you made that entry
21 either after that of 30th June or halfway down the page,
22 leaving room for another entry above?
23 MS FORTUNE: No.
24 MR GARNHAM: Is that your normal practice?
25 MS FORTUNE: No.
38
1 MR GARNHAM: There is another entry for 17th June, page 158.
2 Whose handwriting is that?
3 MS FORTUNE: It is my handwriting.
4 MR GARNHAM: Help me with this, Ms Fortune: there appear to
5 be two entries on this one file for 17th June in
6 different places; why is that?
7 MS FORTUNE: I do not know why.
8 MR GARNHAM: You see, it might be thought that the entry on
9 page 153 has been entered rather later, in fact after
10 30th June. Might that be the case?
11 MS FORTUNE: It could be. I do not know.
12 MR GARNHAM: Why would you do that, Ms Fortune?
13 MS FORTUNE: I do not know.
14 MR GARNHAM: At the end of the entry for 17th June on
15 page 153, you write this:
16 "I explained to Ms Kouao" -- sorry, do you have it?
17 Page 153. End of that entry:
18 "I explained to Ms Kouao that after the assessment,
19 the management would probably withdraw financial support
20 and accommodation because she is now working. Ms Kouao
21 said that she would like help with her child minding.
22 I informed Ms Kouao that social services would probably
23 not assist."
24 Is that the final entry you make for that day? Is
25 that how the matter is concluded?
39
1 MS FORTUNE: I think so.
2 MR GARNHAM: Or do we have to go back to page 158, your
3 other entry for that day, to find your conclusions?
4 MS FORTUNE: The action to be taken, I would say.
5 MR GARNHAM: So the entry on page 158 is the one we ought to
6 be looking at to find your conclusions, is it? Yes?
7 MS FORTUNE: Yes.
8 MR GARNHAM: Your notes include, under that heading of
9 "Action to be taken", arranging a home visit. Did that
10 take place?
11 MS FORTUNE: I left the information, and I was off -- I was
12 the duty social worker. I left the information, but
13 I was off on the Friday and Monday. That is what I said
14 in my statement, but I am not clear if that was
15 undertaken after that time.
16 MR GARNHAM: There is no evidence to suggest that any home
17 visit was ever undertaken, is there?
18 MS FORTUNE: What, written down on the file?
19 MR GARNHAM: Yes.
20 MS FORTUNE: Not written down on the file, no.
21 MR GARNHAM: Is there evidence from some other source?
22 MS FORTUNE: As I told you, I spoke to Cecilia Schreuder,
23 the other social worker who undertook the home visit
24 with me.
25 MR GARNHAM: That was a visit to these premises. Are you
40
1 saying that was a home visit?
2 MS FORTUNE: Yes, I mean to inspect the property.
3 MR GARNHAM: So what you intended was an inspection of
4 Nicoll Road, rather than a visit to Victoria in her
5 home; that is what you had in mind, was it?
6 MS FORTUNE: Yes, at the time.
7 MR GARNHAM: Is not what was necessary a visit to Victoria
8 in her home?
9 MS FORTUNE: I agree, but I left an action plan that should
10 be -- as I said, I discussed it with the manager.
11 MR GARNHAM: Yes, so what you wanted was Victoria to be
12 visited in her home, yes?
13 MS FORTUNE: Yes.
14 MR GARNHAM: So the visit to the premises by you or the
15 other lady you referred to could not possibly qualify as
16 that, because that was a check of the lavatories and so
17 on.
18 MS FORTUNE: Yes, but I did ask to see Mrs Kouao, and I was
19 told she was not in. Obviously if she was in, I would
20 have spoken to the child.
21 MR GARNHAM: When did you ask to see Ms Kouao?
22 MS FORTUNE: When I went to do the inspection of the
23 property.
24 MR GARNHAM: You have not mentioned that to us before, have
25 you?
41
1 MS FORTUNE: No.
2 MR GARNHAM: Why did you not mention that either in your
3 statement to the police, or the statement to us, or in
4 any earlier communication with us?
5 MS FORTUNE: Because I was asked specifically about the
6 information that I left on the 17th when I was away,
7 I was not asked about any other visits.
8 MR GARNHAM: Do you know what steps were taken to follow up
9 this action plan on page 158?
10 MS FORTUNE: No, as I said, I do not, because I was away
11 from the office at the time.
12 MR GARNHAM: When did you return?
13 MS FORTUNE: I returned -- I will have to look in my
14 diary -- on Tuesday. I do not know if I was on duty.
15 MR GARNHAM: What process is there in place in Ealing to
16 ensure that where a social worker sets out an action
17 plan like this, that it is actually done?
18 MS FORTUNE: It has to be agreed by the manager, and there
19 is a tracking service. The manager will say "Undertake
20 Pamela's actions", or give another reason.
21 MR GARNHAM: Is that documented anywhere normally?
22 MS FORTUNE: Usually on the file.
23 MR GARNHAM: So if there had been a management decision to
24 follow up this action plan, we would see it documented?
25 MS FORTUNE: We should do.
42
1 MR GARNHAM: And if the action was in fact taken, we would
2 see that documented as well, would we not?
3 MS FORTUNE: Usually, yes.
4 MR GARNHAM: Usually; is it a matter of chance, or is there
5 a policy in place?
6 MS FORTUNE: No, I can understand what you are saying, but
7 it was very difficult at the time. There is different
8 duty social workers write information which they feel is
9 relevant, so I cannot explain what another duty social
10 worker would do. I can only understand my actions.
11 MR GARNHAM: And you do not know -- you cannot help us with
12 the system that ought to ensure that if a manager
13 approves your action plan, that is actually put into
14 effect; you cannot help us with that?
15 MS FORTUNE: It usually is, it is discussed with the next
16 duty social worker.
17 (11.00 am)
18 MR GARNHAM: Yes. How is a case allocated to a particular
19 social worker? What is the process?
20 MS FORTUNE: There is usually a green -- it is called
21 a "green" -- with the information written down, with the
22 client's name and the allocation of the person.
23 MR GARNHAM: This case was allocated to you, was it not?
24 MS FORTUNE: Yes, it was.
25 MR GARNHAM: When was it allocated to you?
43
1 MS FORTUNE: From my documentation it is 30th June.
2 MR GARNHAM: Yes. Can we look at page 186? I think we will
3 see that confirmed there. Is that the green?
4 MS FORTUNE: That is one of the greens, yes.
5 MR GARNHAM: And does that show you being allocated this
6 case on 30th June?
7 MS FORTUNE: Correct.
8 MR GARNHAM: Would you have a look at page 146 in that same
9 file, please. That looks as if it is allocated to you
10 on the 20th.
11 MS FORTUNE: That is my handwriting.
12 MR GARNHAM: That should be the 30th, should it?
13 MS FORTUNE: The 20th was a Sunday.
14 MR GARNHAM: So that repeats the 30th allocation date; so
15 that confirms you were allocated to the case on
16 30th June.
17 MS FORTUNE: That is the information that is written down.
18 MR GARNHAM: Yes. Would you have a look at page 194,
19 please? This appears to be another green form, in which
20 it is noted that you are allocated the case on
21 23rd June.
22 MS FORTUNE: Yes.
23 MR GARNHAM: So, which is it?
24 MS FORTUNE: From my diary, I have got the 30th, the cases
25 that were allocated to me, the information, and from
44
1 what I have written on the file.
2 MR GARNHAM: So it looks as if this entry is a mistake, or
3 was not communicated to you or something of that sort?
4 MS FORTUNE: It could be possible, yes.
5 MR GARNHAM: Your next involvement with this case was on
6 22nd June, I think, was it not? Paragraph 7 of your
7 statement. Yes?
8 MS FORTUNE: I do not have my statement in front of me.
9 MR GARNHAM: I wonder if you could be given the statement.
10 You should have that, please. Volume 1 of the green
11 files, page 160. If you then turn over to paragraph 7.
12 MS FORTUNE: Okay. Are you referring to the first
13 statement?
14 MR GARNHAM: Yes, I am.
15 "The next case recording is for 22nd June when
16 I discussed the case with the duty manager ..."; yes?
17 MS FORTUNE: Yes.
18 MR GARNHAM: So your next involvement is 22nd June?
19 MS FORTUNE: Yes.
20 MR GARNHAM: And we find the entry for that at page 158 in
21 volume 5. Again, I wonder if you could have some help
22 with the bundles, please. Last entry on that page.
23 MS FORTUNE: Yes.
24 MR GARNHAM: Tell me what the first letters mean.
25 MS FORTUNE: "DTM discussed case -- re telephone call from
45
1 Nicoll Road ..."
2 MR GARNHAM: "... re Mrs Kouao accommodation. Bernadette
3 GSA ..."
4 MS FORTUNE: That is the admin support.
5 MR GARNHAM: Thank you.
6 "... asked duty team manager if social services will
7 continue to fund Mrs Kouao's accommodation. Funded up
8 until 30/6/99. Informed accommodation will not be
9 funded after 30th June."
10 Is that right?
11 MS FORTUNE: Correct.
12 MR GARNHAM: So it seemed then that the end date for funding
13 of Nicoll Road was to be 30th June.
14 MS FORTUNE: That is the information I was given.
15 MR GARNHAM: Did you contact the solicitors for Ms Kouao
16 after that?
17 MS FORTUNE: Not that I can recall. I do not know.
18 MR GARNHAM: Paragraph 7 of your statement again -- I am
19 afraid that needs to be left on the table, if we may,
20 please.
21 Paragraph 7 again:
22 "I also tried to ascertain from Ms Kouao's
23 solicitors whether or not their appeal against the
24 Benefits Agency decision was successful."
25 Do you recall that?
46
1 MS FORTUNE: Yes, I did write it down.
2 MR GARNHAM: Did you speak to the solicitors?
3 MS FORTUNE: Yes.
4 MR GARNHAM: Did you get an answer to your question?
5 MS FORTUNE: No.
6 MR GARNHAM: Your next involvement was a week later,
7 30th June, the day, according to you, that you were
8 allocated the case.
9 MS FORTUNE: Yes, that is correct.
10 MR GARNHAM: The instruction to you is on the file at
11 page 153 in volume 5:
12 "Pamela, please complete the assessment and write to
13 Mrs Kouao, inviting her to the office to discuss the
14 management decisions."
15 Is that right?
16 MS FORTUNE: It is correct.
17 MR GARNHAM: You are then to complete the assessment, is
18 that right?
19 MS FORTUNE: That is correct, I was told.
20 MR GARNHAM: This is the same assessment that had been
21 awaited since 26th April, is it not?
22 MS FORTUNE: Correct.
23 MR GARNHAM: So we have now been over two months, and we
24 still do not have an assessment.
25 MS FORTUNE: No, only the information that was presented,
47
1 that was noted down by duty social workers.
2 MR GARNHAM: Does that often happen, that we have a nine
3 week delay between an instruction to complete an
4 assessment and the assessment being dealt with?
5 MS FORTUNE: Does it often happen? I think the difficulty
6 is that we did not have any format for the assessment,
7 for the forms to be filled in. We only had the yellow
8 core form, so we had to work with the information that
9 we had.
10 MR GARNHAM: Did you do as you were asked and complete the
11 assessment that day?
12 MS FORTUNE: As best as I possibly could. I did not write
13 the information -- as I said before, it was an
14 interpreter who wrote the information, and that
15 explained that it was difficult.
16 MR GARNHAM: You are referring back to 17th June, are you
17 not?
18 MS FORTUNE: Yes, that is right.
19 MR GARNHAM: We are now up to the 30th and you are being
20 instructed by your manager, Ms Lawrence, to complete the
21 assessment.
22 MS FORTUNE: Yes, but I explained to the manager that
23 I found the assessment difficult. The assessment was
24 from 17th June, I think she was referring to.
25 MR GARNHAM: She was asking you to complete it, to finish
48
1 the job, was she not?
2 MS FORTUNE: Yes, but a decision had already been made from
3 quite early on that Mrs Kouao should go back to France
4 or the child should be accommodated.
5 MR GARNHAM: So you disregarded this instruction?
6 MS FORTUNE: No, I explained that I found it very difficult
7 to do that.
8 MR GARNHAM: Is that the reason why we find an entry for
9 17th June on the same page?
10 MS FORTUNE: It may be. I do not know.
11 MR GARNHAM: Nothing further was done towards completing an
12 assessment on 30th June, was it?
13 MS FORTUNE: No, nothing written down, no.
14 MR GARNHAM: You were also told to invite Kouao into the
15 office to discuss management decisions; yes?
16 MS FORTUNE: Yes, that is correct.
17 MR GARNHAM: And we find those on the next page, do we not,
18 154:
19 "The client has no connection with this country, has
20 no significant family friends. There has been no
21 appropriate adequate planning prior to coming to this
22 country. Reason for coming was to learn English. She
23 has family/friends in France, has access to housing and
24 state benefits in France. She has children she left
25 back in France, whom she intends to return to France to
49
1 collect and bring to this country, who will subsequently
2 become dependent on social services funding. Based on
3 the above, this department has decided that we can no
4 longer fund Ms Kouao as it is apparent that she will
5 need" -- I cannot read the next word.
6 MS FORTUNE: It is not my writing -- "unlimited".
7 MR GARNHAM: -- "unlimited funding over a long period of
8 time. Ms Kouao has left a stable lifestyle to come to
9 this country, where she has no recourse to public funds
10 or accommodation, and therefore placed herself and her
11 child in a vulnerable situation.
12 "We are in a position to provide Ms Kouao with
13 return tickets for herself and child to France."
14 Those were the management decisions which you were
15 instructed to relay to Ms Kouao.
16 MS FORTUNE: Yes.
17 MR GARNHAM: And I think you issued that invitation and she
18 came into the office that same day.
19 MS FORTUNE: Yes.
20 MR GARNHAM: And you then gave her the letter which we find
21 at page 190; is that right?
22 MS FORTUNE: Correct.
23 MR GARNHAM: There is a new end date now, 7th July is the
24 end of funding; is that right?
25 MS FORTUNE: That is correct.
50
1 MR GARNHAM: And the letter sets that out, and summarises
2 the management decisions which we have just looked at,
3 is that right?
4 MS FORTUNE: Correct.
5 MR GARNHAM: Did you feel at that stage that you had carried
6 out an adequate assessment of Victoria's needs?
7 MS FORTUNE: In hindsight, no, but when they presented,
8 I believed -- duty social workers believed that they had
9 quite a good relationship at the time.
10 MR GARNHAM: You mean Kouao and Victoria had a good
11 relationship?
12 MS FORTUNE: Yes, at the time.
13 MR GARNHAM: Was Victoria with her that day? Your notes are
14 at 154, if that is what you are looking for.
15 MS FORTUNE: Thank you. I cannot remember.
16 MR GARNHAM: I am sorry, that is the management decision.
17 MS FORTUNE: I cannot recall, sorry.
18 MR GARNHAM: You do not recall whether Victoria was there?
19 MS FORTUNE: No.
20 MR GARNHAM: If you look at paragraph 10 of your statement,
21 I think you will see that you say there that she was not
22 with you.
23 MS FORTUNE: Okay.
24 MR GARNHAM: And that you were told she was with
25 a childminder; do you have that?
|
