Archived Transcript for 8 January 2002: Pages 51 to 61


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1 MR GARNHAM: "Sustain" suggests you were managing it in the

2 past and no longer able to do it in the future. But you

3 never managed it, did you?

4 DCI WHEELER: I did not manage it effectively -- effectively

5 and to the quality that I would have liked to have

6 managed it because of the structure of the role.

7 MR GARNHAM: You advocate at the bottom of the same page the

8 creation of a CPT DCI, Detective Chief Inspector.

9 DCI WHEELER: That was the move at the time. That was the

10 move that we were going towards. We were looking

11 towards a DCI who had simply responsibility for CPTs and

12 nothing else.

13 MR GARNHAM: Is that a job you would have liked?

14 DCI WHEELER: I would have liked it, yes. In fact I did

15 take it over. When SO5 was formed that was the job that

16 I actually took. I do not say that I would have liked

17 it through that year. I was enjoying being the

18 informant registrar and in some respect it was quite

19 good to have a little rest from hands on investigations

20 of crimes against children. That is very harrowing and

21 sometimes it is useful to step back from it.

22 MR GARNHAM: What was done in response to this latest

23 report?

24 DCI WHEELER: The third report?

25 MR GARNHAM: Yes. What did they do when they got that? It

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1 was addressed to Cox, was it not?

2 DCI WHEELER: It was addressed to Detective Chief

3 Superintendent Cox, yes, and I think we talked about

4 what the developments were going to be in terms of child

5 protection, in terms of the Crime OCU because at that

6 time the Crime OCU was changing its structure and its

7 role from being just North West Area but we were merging

8 with Central Area as well.

9 MR GARNHAM: So this fed into the process that eventually

10 resulted in SO5?

11 DCI WHEELER: It did a little bit because that is the way

12 the role was going. The Area DCI role was going to be

13 phased out and there was a movement then and several

14 people were suggesting, I think I said that Mr Copson

15 says there, and I guess Mr Cox was on board with that,

16 that there would be a DCI solely in charge of child

17 protection teams.

18 MR GARNHAM: Can I turn to the Child Protection Manual,

19 please.

20 DCI WHEELER: Can I say something first? When I went to see

21 Mr Cox regarding the lack of staff and the difficulties

22 of this role, it was within the context of being

23 probably the busiest Crime OCU, the busiest murder squad

24 in the country at this time. I would just like to say

25 if Mr Cox could have opened another box of police

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1 officers I am quite sure he would have done, and Mr Cox

2 knew that there were difficulties in terms of child

3 protection.

4 When Anderson Dunn, the Assistant Commissioner, came

5 to the Crime OCU I think in October as a result of the

6 Commissioner's visit in the summer, Mr Cox asked me to

7 stand up at the meeting with Anderson Dunn, the

8 Assistant Commissioner, and say that the resources for

9 child protection needed -- we needed more resources in

10 child protection terms. So Mr Cox was well aware of

11 that and if he could have given me more staff I am quite

12 sure he would have done.

13 MR GARNHAM: Thank you. Can we turn now to look at the

14 problem with the manual. You mention in paragraph 2.1

15 of your statement that the senior supervisors' meeting

16 discussed the rewriting of the Child Protection Manual.

17 DCI WHEELER: The only reason I know that is from the

18 minutes, Mr Garnham, yes.

19 MR GARNHAM: That is what I am going to ask you about.

20 I wonder if you could have volume 33A back, please.

21 Page 64. That is the minutes of the 21st September

22 1999, held again at Bushey Sports Club.

23 DCI WHEELER: Yes, I have those.

24 MR GARNHAM: Go over, if you will please to the next page,

25 page 65. Item 4.2, CPT Manual, Peter Hill is dealing

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1 with this. Detective Superintendent Akers was actioned

2 as a senior detectives' meeting to rewrite the CRI --

3 I think that should be CPI, should it not, or is it CRI?

4 DCI WHEELER: I think it is says CR1 -- I think my eyes are

5 going.

6 MR GARNHAM: Is that a different manual?

7 DCI WHEELER: I would guess it means the CPT Manual.

8 MR GARNHAM: Thank you. That is a decision in September

9 1999, recorded in the team managers' meeting minutes.

10 Is that right?

11 DCI WHEELER: Yes.

12 MR GARNHAM: Go over next, please, to 33A, page 75. This is

13 another North West OCU Child Protection Team managers'

14 meeting at Bushey, 19th October 1999, both you and

15 DS Akers are present. And on the second page, at 4.2.1

16 we see the following minute:

17 "Detective Superintendent Akers stated that this was

18 discharged today. There was a meeting today and the

19 CPT Manual was discussed and because the CPT Manual is

20 old, inaccurate and not user friendly a complete revamp

21 will be needed, and due to current work commitments it

22 has been decided that there will not be a CPT Manual."

23 Are those the minutes you had in mind when you said

24 that is how you knew what had happened to the ...?

25 DCI WHEELER: Yes.

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1 MR GARNHAM: Because it is not just the minutes, you

2 actually had a meeting, did you not?

3 DCI WHEELER: We had a meeting. These minutes fed into the

4 DIs' meeting at Bushey. These meetings were -- it was

5 a standing agenda item that the meetings from the senior

6 supervisors --

7 MR GARNHAM: We are looking at the Bushey minutes.

8 DCI WHEELER: Yes, we are looking at the Bushey minutes.

9 The minutes from the senior supervisors fed into the

10 Bushey.

11 MR GARNHAM: I understand. You were present at this

12 meeting?

13 DCI WHEELER: Yes, I was.

14 MR GARNHAM: At which presumably, since it is in the

15 minutes, this item was discussed?

16 DCI WHEELER: Yes, I was.

17 MR GARNHAM: So there would have been a discussion to the

18 effect recorded in the paragraph we have just looked at?

19 DCI WHEELER: About the manual, yes.

20 MR GARNHAM: So by that time you were aware, were you, that

21 a decision had been taken to quote the minutes, that the

22 manual is "old, inaccurate and not user friendly and

23 a complete revamp is needed"?

24 DCI WHEELER: I was aware of the moves and the disquiet

25 about the Child Protection Manual but let me point this

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1 out: the Child Protection Manual was written some years

2 before.

3 MR GARNHAM: How long before?

4 DCI WHEELER: I think in about 1988. I think it was written

5 then and, like the British Constitution, child

6 protection policy was not just one manual or one

7 document. It was several documents, policy documents,

8 it was police notices. In fact one of the most

9 important parts of child protection work was a police

10 notice in 1997 about file management, which would not

11 have been included in the Child Protection Manual

12 itself. It is in the new Child Protection Manual that

13 I was tasked to write but it would not have been in that

14 one then, and child protection policy and management, if

15 you like, was managed by the child protection manager

16 and a succession of other documents at that time.

17 What we have done in terms of the new manual that

18 has been written, the team that I was put in charge of

19 to write the new manual, is to try and get all of those

20 together in one place.

21 MR GARNHAM: Would you agree that as at October 1999 the

22 CPT Manual was indeed old, inaccurate and not user

23 friendly?

24 DCI WHEELER: In some parts it was. I could not disagree

25 with that. In some parts it was, in some parts it was

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1 right, but again that was not the only driver of policy

2 or that was not the only place that you went to to get

3 information.

4 MR GARNHAM: It is a useful starting point, is it not, the

5 CPT Manual?

6 DCI WHEELER: It would have been if it was user friendly and

7 if it was useful, yes, I agree it would have been and

8 there were some parts of it that did give the correct

9 information.

10 MR GARNHAM: What are we to understand by the last few words

11 of that paragraph:

12 "It has been decided that there will not be

13 a CPT Manual"?

14 DCI WHEELER: Which page are we looking at?

15 MR GARNHAM: Page 76.

16 DCI WHEELER: Again this is an example of where I was not at

17 the meeting that decided that, Mr Garnham, so I cannot

18 tell you. If I had been then I might have got the sense

19 of --

20 MR GARNHAM: You were at the meeting at which this was

21 recorded.

22 DCI WHEELER: There is a difference I think between the

23 meeting recording and the meeting deciding. The meeting

24 that decided that was a senior supervisors' meeting

25 which I did not attend.

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1 MR GARNHAM: Did you ask what Akers was on about?

2 DCI WHEELER: We probably had a discussion with DS Akers

3 about the CPT manual --

4 MR GARNHAM: It is a fairly unusual note, is it not, that

5 the manual which has been in existence for 10 years or

6 so is now recognised to be old, inaccurate and not user

7 friendly and that in the future there will not be

8 a manual? It must have struck you given your line

9 management responsibilities as a discussion of some

10 importance.

11 DCI WHEELER: It is of extreme importance --

12 MR GARNHAM: So what was your understanding of it?

13 DCI WHEELER: Let me finish, Mr Garnham. I think it is of

14 extreme importance and the importance that I attach to

15 a manual and correct operating procedures can be seen

16 from the fact that I was given the job to rewrite it

17 after the decision was taken by SO5 that we would have

18 a manual. It was a different line management,

19 a different set of senior supervisors, and I was given

20 the job to do that and it has been done and I hope it is

21 before this ...

22 MR GARNHAM: I shall ask you about the process in a moment.

23 I want to understand what you understood to be the

24 position at the time of these two meetings in

25 September/October of 1999. Did you understand that

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1 there was still extant, still in existence a CPT Manual

2 for use by your teams?

3 DCI WHEELER: Yes there was. It had not been withdrawn

4 officially I suppose. It had been withdrawn I suppose

5 by this actual comment that it would not be redone. But

6 it was still available to people to dip into if they

7 needed any advice.

8 MR GARNHAM: Let me ask you again the question that started

9 this exchange. What do the words "it has been decided

10 that there will not be a CPT Manual" mean?

11 DCI WHEELER: I think it is fairly simple to understand that

12 there will not be a new CPT Manual, but again I cannot

13 tell you the mechanics of the decision around that

14 because I was not at the senior supervisors' meeting at

15 the Yard. If I had been, I do not know, I may well have

16 argued against that but --

17 MR GARNHAM: So we are to read into this the word "new", are

18 we, before "CPT Manual"? It does not say that. "It has

19 been decided that there will not be a CPT Manual." It

20 does not say "it has been decided there will not be

21 a new CPT Manual".

22 DCI WHEELER: You are getting into semantics Mr Garnham.

23 MR GARNHAM: I think not. I want to understand --

24 DCI WHEELER: If I think you are getting into semantics,

25 Mr Garnham, I can only say that I think you are and I am

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1 asking you to explain what you are saying.

2 MR GARNHAM: There would appear, reading these words

3 naturally, to be only one meaning, namely that it having

4 been recognised that the -- (Interruption)

5 THE CHAIRMAN: I think we should adjourn now. I would be

6 glad if someone can let me know if the witness can carry

7 on today.

8 MR GARNHAM: Absolutely.

9 THE CHAIRMAN: We will adjourn until an appropriate time.

10 (2.50 pm)

11 (A short break)

12 (2.57 pm)

13 THE CHAIRMAN: Ladies and gentlemen, I am sure that you will

14 realise that I take that incident very seriously indeed,

15 to put it mildly. I am deeply concerned about what has

16 happened to the witness and the disruption that this has

17 caused to this Inquiry, but particularly to the witness.

18 I think we have no choice now other than to adjourn the

19 proceedings and enquire of the well-being of the

20 witness. Mr Garnham, we normally meet --

21 MR GARNHAM: Sir, we would normally meet at 9.30 tomorrow.

22 I invite you to do the same. I do not know whether

23 Detective Superintendent Akers is here. She is.

24 I wonder then whether I can indicate that we may need to

25 start with her tomorrow if Mr Wheeler is not fit. If

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1 Mr Wheeler is fit we will continue with him and then go

2 on to Ms Akers later on.

3 THE CHAIRMAN: That would be fine by me. I am looking to

4 Ms Akers.

5 MR DOYLE: Sir I appear on behalf of Ms Akers and that is

6 convenient.

7 THE CHAIRMAN: I am most grateful to you.

8 Ladies and gentlemen, we will adjourn until 9.30

9 tomorrow morning. We will either resume with Mr Wheeler

10 if he is able to do so; if not, I am grateful that we

11 can move to the evidence of Ms Akers. Thank you very

12 much indeed.

13 (3.00 pm)

14 (Hearing adjourned until 9.30 am the following day)

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